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okay, last one
Okay, I will drop this, but first, here are some stand-out comments from the Reclusive Leftist site (man, they are not kidding about the "reclusive" part):

How did it suddenly become shameful to have the background of a typical American woman, married with kids, college, a job, etc.?

I wasn't aware the typical American woman had been to college. I also wasn't aware that "married with kids, college, a job" was specific to Palin. Apparently that's why feminist liberals don't like Palin -- because she's married with kids, went to college and has a job. The Women Against Michelle Obama site is gearing up as I write.

When Sarah Palin spoke at the convention I instantly recognized her as kin, metaphorically speaking, because she’s so similar to my real blood kin. I’m related to lots of women like her. She reminds me particularly of one of my cousins.

Yeah, liking a candidate because she looks like your relatives isn't racially loaded at all.

Here is a woman who isn’t following the liberal feminist playbook, yet has achieved success in the male world. She didn’t focus her whole teen years on getting into an ivy league school. She college hopped, but did get a degree. She was a beauty queen. She married and had four (and now five) children. And, she lives in Alaska! So far away from the centers of power it isn’t even flyover country. She has broken every rule — and yet look where she is. Outrageous!

Yeah, that's it. Liberal feminist women are just jealous because they aren't beauty queens (and you know all "liberal feminists" -- by which I assume the commenter means feminist liberals, not liberal feminists -- went to Ivy League schools and live in big cities). This person should write speeches for Rush Limbaugh.

Although SP does not espouse the liberal feminist positions regarding reproductive choice, to me she embodies a feminist in that she is proving that a woman can flourish in the male world without sacrificing her desire to have children.

Phyllis Schlafly also flourished in the male world and had a lot of children. So basically we're defining "feminist" as "woman who is personally successful." Getting ahead for yourself is a feminist act, no matter how you accomplish it and no matter what you actually believe.

And I like that line about "without sacrificing her desire to have children". Because women who don't have children (or don't have children yet) have by definition sacrificed their desire to have children, because all women want children, now, and it's just that some of us bought into the myth that we should go to university and such, and our ladyparts got starved from all that blood unnaturally flowing to our brains, and our wombs started wandering around our bodies in search of sustenance, and also women who go to Ivy League schools don't have children. Ever. They give you a tubal ligation in frosh week.

Anglaches has pointed out that Palin with her not upper middle class life and standards is a kick in the face to all the people who thought that they are better and will always be better than the “lower classes”.

Yeah, she fired the governor's mansion chef because she wanted to cook for her family! How many of you have fired your chefs, you elitist jerks?

Classism is the same reason the Third Wave and Obama Movement hate the Clintons. They hate that he came from lower class roots and climbed to the top while having the gall to be successful with women.

Whereas Barack Obama was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

I am still shocked by it and I still reject it– especially coming from my fellow Leftists whom I thought believed everyone was equal– apparently if you’re the right pigmentation you’re more equal but if you’re the wrong gender you are not only less equal but something to be owned, used, and then exterminated.

It's reverse racism, I tell you! REVERSE RACISM!!!!!1!!eleven!

Personally, having experienced pregnancy and birth, I have to wonder if life isn’t as consistently feminist a POV as choice is. I know for myself I loved the little zygote and the little fetus that grew to be my daughter, I loved it from the minute I found out about it. I know to this day that I love that child like no other person living ever will. It’s the nature of being a well-balanced, good mother. So why is it different just because that fetus is unwanted?

Why, indeed? I mean, only an unbalanced woman would want an abortion! Who cares what unbalanced people want?

I’m not willing to say that Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and Mary Wollstonecraft weren’t feminists. They were all fervent anti-abortionists.

Yes, and as we all know, the state of medical science and the legal rights of women were exactly the same in Mary Wollstonecraft's day, which is why Wollstonecraft did not die of postpartum sepsis but instead lived to bomb the very first Planned Parenthood clinic.

With the options available to women today, it’s just as easy to argue that if a woman didn’t want that person in her uterus, she shouldn’t have invited them in. Every unprotected sexual act invites pregnancy.

"If you don't want a child, don't open your legs". I think I've read this before.

I think the modern feminist movement has become overly fixated on abortion, almost the way the First Wave was overly fixated on suffrage. Obviously the vote was imperative, but it was not the silver bullet. Women got the vote, and continued to be second-class citizens.

So I take it if McCain ran on a "disfranchise women" platform you would vote for that too?

Yeah, when you don’t want a child right now because of school/ work/financiary problems/ etc, you can have an abortion and get it over with. Yet there is a backlash to it: how many women who alreay HAVE children have faced the “if you can’t afford kids you shouldn’t have had them” retort which translates in lack of paid maternity leave, lack of options regarding flexible work, good career options for mothers, affordable childcare, etc?

The result of this is a species of “selfish feminist” who is in it only for herself.

Only selfish women have abortions! (Wait, I could swear I've read this before...)

It’s sometimes hard to know who the misogynistic feminists are. They seem to be feminists, equal pay for work of equal value, equal representation, equal access; but they hate anything that is female, that can only be done by females. Child birth, child rearing.

Child rearing can only be done by females! And did you know that if you don't want to do something at every possible opportunity, that means you hate it and everyone who does it? I didn't either, but then I am one of those skanky younger feminists.

Sarah Palin reminds one of the American frontierswomen - isn’t that an American icon to be proud of?

Yup, the romance of the American frontier: a source of pride for everyone.

In other news, the definition of "lie" has been changed to "thing I don't want to hear, la la la".

These women deserve McCain.

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Any coward who supports abortion has the blood of babies on their hands.

SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life.

Wow! I never heard of this before. I'm going to go out and get baptized and sin no more.

Oh god I hate that "I'm pro-life because I had a baby" crap.

Now that I've been pregnant and given birth, I find the idea of forcing someone to do that who doesn't want to have a baby even more horrifying. Yeah, I was happy to do it, but that shit is seriously painful and intrusive.

And the thing is, I've read comments from lots of mothers saying the same thing -- especially mothers who had difficult pregnancies. The notion that having a baby makes you want to force other women to have babies is seriously false.

It reminds me of the Republicans who try to insult Democrats by asking if they are sitting at home waiting for the welfare check to come. I have to wonder if they realize that, you know, they've actually met Democrats/feminists in real life and that, gasp!, they weren't the baby-killing, welfare-checking-dependent, woman-hating, fill-in-the-blank chimeras they'd built up in their minds.

Reality and these women are clearly not on speaking terms.

The thing that fucking kills me is that I've been reading these commenters for years, some of them. I believe they are -- or were -- leftists and feminists, perhaps in the radical vein. I've disagreed with them, certainly, and not thought too highly of some of them, but this comes out of left field.

I'm dying to know, where did you find these comments? I am shocked that they were/are/whatever leftists and feminists, because they are spewing the same kind of barely-educated repugnant nonsense I have to deal with at work every day.

They commented all over the blogs at various times in the past 3-4 years -- Alas, A Blog, Mousewords/Pandagon, Feministe, Feministing; especially Violet Socks, tinfoil hattie and soopermouse. I never saw particularly eye to eye with them, but this still shocks me.

I am trying to analyze it. The talk of Palin's "ordinariness" and "frontierness" and not being a member of the urban coastal "elite" Obama belongs to is racially inflected, but the other stuff just makes no sense.

Really? I am's been a while since I hit up most of those blogs (except Feministing) and so it's a little weird to hear that the commenters have taken such a hard turn for the right.

When I see and hear Palin, I don't see "ordinary" - I see "obnoxious." But then again, most people annoy me, so maybe that really is ordinary.

Well, this isn't the majority of commenters at those sites. But these folks used to more or less fit in there, and now they're saying that tax cuts for the rich and anti-abortion politics are what real people and real feminism are about and you're a misogynist if you disagree, so I'm confused.

I think the "ordinary" thing is...well, it's partly race (the Obamas will never be "ordinary" no matter how humble their origins or how many Gs they drop), but also class, with ability and education standing in for wealth. It's Dubya again. Palin is in touch with the concerns of ordinary women with kids not because she's lived them (VS et al have pointed to nothing that indicates she has, say, struggled to pay for health insurance or find child care) or because she has anything to say about them beyond "women need to work harder", but because she's not well informed about the world, and "well informed" signifies "wealthy and connected".

Ack! I'm sorry, I misread the question as "where did you find these commenters?" -- these comments are all from

if a woman didn’t want that person in her uterus, she shouldn’t have invited them in. Every unprotected sexual act invites pregnancy.

1. That "person"? Wow.
2. Yes, birth control never fails, and all women have equal access to it, and to information about how to use it correctly.

Honestly, that sounds like Quiverfull. And it's no less creepy coming from people who call themselves feminists.

It' know, I'm trying to parse it. I really, really get angry at older women with children who are upset about the lack of support they get as mothers, the pervasive cultural climate that tells them they're not sexy or interesting or worth listening to any more, the people who suggest that children are luxury items and if you aren't rich you should never have any, and turn it into slut-shaming of younger women who don't have or want kids yet (or at all). And I think maybe that's what is going on here. The Republicans say nice things about mothers, Palin says nice things about mothers, they'll stick it to those little sluts who think they're so great, and nobody notices that the Republicans offer nothing, NOTHING concrete to help mothers and children.

It occurs to me that these people who are so anti-choice are also against public health care. If you're bringing all these little people into the world, then shouldn't you, as a nation, provide them with access to free health care? I mean, don't you owe them that? At LEAST?

Now, now. These women are all leftist feminists and very much in favour of public healthcare. That's why they're voting for the candidates who most strongly oppose public health care. Don't see the logic? You're a misogynist!

Worse! I'm a pinko commie Canadian misogynist!

I have never seen so much idiocy in my entire life. Feminism should be the amazing thing that allows people to see past the bullshit being shovelled here to vote for the better candidate who happens to be a man.

You're right. If they vote in McCain, they deserve him. They think she'll listen to them cause she's a woman? Please. She's doing what Uncle Sam tells her to do. I'd think this was a repeat of Commander in Chief, except if McCain was on his deathbed and asked Palin to step down because he only picked her to win the soccer-mom vote, not because he thought she could lead the free world, she'd do it.

Oooooh. This makes me soooo mad! I'm voting Green.

Maybe actual feminists should decide to just call themselves misogynists from now on. Like these backwards fucks are just deciding they're feminists.

Edited at 2008-09-22 12:44 am (UTC)

They think she'll listen to them cause she's a woman?

I think at this point it's more like they'll listen to her because she's a woman. They are rapidly redefining "feminist" to mean "whatever Sarah Palin is."

hey - i had to add you. i've never added someone i didn't know through someone else, but i found your journal doing a google search for the women's court of canada rewrite of Gosselin. I'm going my LL.M at U of Toronto and we're studying all of the WCC courses this semester... I absolutely adore it and was very happy to find someone who shares so many of my ideas!

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